What if Beowulf was really just boastful? What if he was all talk and didn't really know all that much about fighting?
Create an alternate version of the story; one that could have happened if Beowulf had lost to Grendel. What would happen to Beowulf's men, Hrothgar, and Herorot? What would Grendel and his mother do? Post your answer to the blog by Sunday.
The story would have turned out quite differently if Beowulf had lost and Grendel had won. For one, Beowuld and his mean probably would not have survived, which would mean that they had lost another heroic, brave fighter. Not only that, but it also would have probably been the end of Herorot. Judging by Grendel's character he would not have taken an attack from Beowulf very well. It most likely would have made him very angry, even more so than usual. Even before the fight with Beowulf, Grendel was being very destructive, which was having a terrible impact on Herorot and its people. But if Grendel had won, he probably would have destroyed the mead hall completely. In his rade, he probably would have killed everyone - no just those in the mead hall. Fighting with Beowulf and winning would boost his confidence (not that Grendel needed his confidence boosted) making him more angry and more apt to kill. However, his anger probably would not subside in one night. His mother and him would continue to take their revenge, even more harshly than before. Ultimately, it would have resulted in a lot more death if Grendel had won and Beowulf had lost.
ReplyDeleteGreat post and very thorough. I wonder why no one else has posted...
ReplyDeleteIf Beowulf had lost the fight with Grendel, then Grendel would probably have continued with his plan on page 13, to "divide the life from the body of every one of" the people in Herorot. Whether this was within his capabilities or not is hard to say, but he certainly would have been able to do a lot of damage. I think that after Beowulf had been defeated, his companions would have felt it to be their duty to return to the Geats with what ever was left of Beowulf, and I think things would continue as they had been going before Beowulf got there: people would stand up to Grendel occasionally only to be defeated (although, if Beowulf lost without a sword, then his successors would defiantly use swords). This would continue until all of the thanes at Herorot were gone, and the rest of the people resettled elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteAs for Grendel's mother, I think she would have remained out of the story. The only reason she showed herself in the first place was to extract wergild from the Danes for the death of her son. If her son didn't die, she would have continued doing what ever an evil lake monster does while her son plunders nearby towns.
I agree with Megan on this one, I don't see the story ending happily if Beowulf and his men are defeated by Grendel. Not only would there never be another great warrior like Beowulf for a very long time (if ever), Heorot would be completely destroyed by Grendel's rage. I doubt that anyone would survive. Also, Grendel's rage had simply been contained to the hall of Heorot at the time, but because Beowulf traveled such a distance to fight him, I bet that Grendel would branch out a little bit and start wreaking havoc on the surrounding communities. There would no longer be any restraints, and no one would be safe.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Aaron:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aaron that if Beowulf's people had not been killed they would have felt obligated to return to the Geats. Also, Aaron's point about his mother staying out of the story is an interesting one which I hadn't considered before. I agree that that is a definite possibility.
In response to Colleen:
I also agree that because of Beowulf, Grendel would start to travel farther and potentially start killing in other places (which I assume he has killed people in other places then Herorot before). Also like Colleen said, Beowulf was a protector, and without this protector people would not be safe.
If Beowulf had been killed the poem would take much more subdued, grim turn. During the fights with Grendel and then his mother Beowulf is obsessed with honor and treasure. The fights encapsulate the ideas of Scandinavian culture of the time: life is to be lived amassing victories in any area possible whether it be in terms of glory, money or just contests like with Breca. If Beowulf had not backed up the ideals of the culture, all hope would be lost. I agree with Aaron that Grendel's wrath would no longer be contained and he would go on a rampage. It is possible that if Beowulf had been defeated the Danes would abandon hope for a better life or a valiant victory. They might simply cut and run. If the greatest hero in all the lands could not defeat Grendel, could regular thanes do it? I think that a story with Beowulf is inconceivable. Beowulf represents everything the Geats and the Danes stand for. In popular tales good must always win. It reassures people that what they strive for and their ideals are correct. If Beowulf had been full of hot air the story would never have been popular and I doubt it would be recorded for us to read today.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Colleen:
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much we know about what Grendel's real motivations are. We are told in the text that he "hates happiness." We can infer that the reason that he does not kill all of the inhabitants of Heorot at once is that he simply retaliates against the happiness. Once it is stomped out he leaves.If Beowulf died there would obviously be mourning throughout the lands. Which would be more powerful, Grendel's furry at being attacked or his satisfaction with the sadness around him. If Beowulf died I think Grendel would be thrilled. He would be surrounded by gloom and Heorot might even be abandoned, never to be festive again. Grendel would simply live out his hateful days knowing that no one around him would be happy again.
If the vicious fight between Grendel and Beowulf had ended in Beowulfs death the story would be quite different, infact there wouldn't be much of a story at all. The entire story depends on the fact that Beowulf is the greatest fighter known to man. If it turned out that he was all talk and no game, then the story would just be full of Grendel and his mother killing innocent people, which is not much of a story. I beleieve that if Beowulf was killed during the fight, his men would flee in fear. Much of their bravery is due to there seemingly indestructible leader, if he is vanquished there is no one to rally them or rule them, so hence they would flee. I also believe that Hrothgar would be killed along with many of the Thanes, if there is no one to protect them they would most definatly be slaughtered. Not only would Hrothgar's men not last but his glorious mead hall would be decimated for sure. I believe eventually Hrothgar's men would desert the mead-hall thus leaving it to be destroyed by Grendel. I believe that Grendel's mother would not play a very big role this scenario. The only reason why we see her in the first place was because she felt the need to avenge her sons death. Without that nned to avenge her sons death, she would no doubt continue hiding in her joyless cave. If Beowulf were killed all that would follow would be death and destruction.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Nick's second post,
ReplyDeleteI think that we are all assuming that Grendel doesn't have a many faceted personality. Surely he has more than a one-track mind. If he had killed Beowulf, I also think that the whole land would have gone into mourning. However, it's possible that Grendel could catch on to the fact that Beowulf is sorely missed and could be resentful.
Or, like you said, he could be satisfied with what he has done. I think that this question's answer is hard to predict because although Grendel is a key player in the story, he isn't developed much, and we don't get a ton information about his personality, except that he's "malignant by nature" and such.
In response to Will,
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of what you said, except for the part about Hrothgar getting killed. I think Hrothgar's thanes would all die before letting Grendel fight the king himself. But at some point (hopefully before this) Hrothgar would likely give up and retreat to somewhere else, like Finn gave up when he was out of thanes.
I agree with everyone in saying that the story would be very different. Most of Beowulf's men probably would have died after him during the battle. The ones that surived would have been very ashamed that they were not able to defeat Grendal, but seeing what Grendal had done to their fearless leader they would have been propelled by fear to go back home. Hrothgar would have been strongly disheartened by Beowulf's demised as he believed him to the strongest of warriors. With no hope left, marriment would have been banned from the town. The hall of Herorot would be rebuilt again, but only as a memory of happier times. The people of the town would have and wait for a hero, probably for a very long time, who was greater than Beowulf to come to their resuce.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if Beowulf had been defeated by Grendal, the story would have been lame and probably wouldn't have travled it's way to our time, let alone be written down.
In response to Aaron's first post:
ReplyDeleteI agree that Grendal's mother wouldn't have been in the story, unless the narrator followed Grendal back to his cave. In which case, Grendal's mother would have welcomed him home and been proud of his accomplishment. They may have gone on a happiness killing rampage in near by towns to celebrate, but other than that, there would be no reason for her entrance into the story, as she would have had nothing to revenge.
I think if Beowulf had been defeated by Grendel, Hrothgar and his thanes would have lost even more hope, for if this supposed great warrior had been killed, what chance did they have of slaying the monster? Grendel would have kept on terrorizing Hrothgar and destroying his mead hall, Heorot, until the kingdom was destroyed, and Beowulf's men would have sailed home in disgrace. Also, if all this had happened, no epic poem would have been written about Beowulf, because in his case good did not triumph over evil, as it usually does in stories such as these.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Will-
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything you said - such as the fact that Grendel's mother wouldn't appear in the story, because she doesn't need to avenge Grendel if he wasn't killed. Also, I agree that Hrothgar's kingdom would be destroyed and Beowulf's men would have to flee for their lives before the wrath of Grendel.
If Beowulf hadn't been able to defeat Grendel, I think there would have been a possibility that this poem wouldn't have ended up being called Beowulf because Beowulf wouldn't have been considered a hero. He would have been just like all the rest of the thanes, trying to defeat Grendel without success, and getting killed while trying. His image of a great hero probably would have been forgotten by everyone, and I think it is fair to say that we might not even be reading this poem today if the great hero Beowulf was not a hero. He wouldn't have been considered a hero not only for losing against Grendel, but also for letting down all his men and because of his empty boasting getting them killed.As for the fate of Beowulf's men, they either would have been killed by Grendel or they would have gone home with their heads lowered in shame. Hrothgar would have probably been killed or he would have been driven out of his kingdom, and Grendel would have still continued to attack.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Nick's first post:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nick when he said that the story would have turned into a very grim poem, because the violence would have continued, and there would have been no celebrating of any sort, just Grendel's continuous and gruesome victories. I also agree with the fact that in popular tales back then the good always won. If good didn't win, the people listening to the story probably wouldn't have been very satisfied with the story. One also has to keep in mind that the story wouldn't have been as good a story if it was just killing after killing, with no real climax. For people back then, stories where the good prevailed were often very important because in their everyday lives good prevailed very little, so hearing it in a story gave them a glimpse of hope.
I agree with most of what has been said already in that the entire story hinges on Beowulf's ability to fight and eventually defeat Grendel. Without it (and we can only speculate this), Grendel would have continued to ravage Heorot for an untold amount of years, perhaps even to the death of the Danish line. It's possible that the poem could have been written with the death of Beowulf in it, but if that were the case then it would probably not be named Beowulf - rather it would be named "The End of the Danes" or something along those lines. I also agree with Gaia when she said that the story would have been much worse if Beowulf had died, mostly because he would have talked it up and built up the climax only to have us all be let down by his untimely and most likely bloody death.
ReplyDeleteIf Beowulf was all talk, the story definitely would have been much different. I feel like it might even have become one of those "moral of the story" tales. Beowulf would have been defeated by Grendel, who then would probably have gone on to kill the rest of the men in Heorot, including Hrothgar. If it kept being told through oral tradition I can see this story becoming a tale that people would tell children to keep them from boasting or lying. It would probably be pretty effective! Grendel's mother wouldn't really be part of the fight considering she only appeared in Heorot to avenge her son's death.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the story probably wouldn't be called "Beowulf" because he wouldn't really be much of a hero. I still think that his name would be included in the title or something though. He is the main character after all. Maybe the story would focus much more on Grendel if Beowulf didn't defeat him.
ReplyDeleteI like Mariyas comment about Grendel's mother going on a happy killing rampage after her son defeated Beowulf. I agree that she really wouldn't be in the story unless something happened to Grendel.
ReplyDeleteWell if Beowulf had lost the battle the story poem would most likely be called the Terrorism of Grendel. An I think also that most of the main characters would be eaten and killed. Grendel and his mom would most likely take over the dining hall and rename it Cains Club or something. If Beowulf was really boastful and thought himself better than the wrest of the characters by a lot he probably would not have that many supporters and no one would want to even tell his tail about how he was such a great worrier.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with what keegan had to say about how this poem most likely would have never made it this far through history if it had not been mostly a positive story and about how Grendel was defeated by Beowulf. I think that there are probably lots and lots of negative stories that have been lost through time because people thought they were just too depressing to write down or tell the other generations.
ReplyDeleteThe main problem with Beowulf losing a fight with Grendel would be that it would be even more difficult for Hrothgar to recruit anyone else to come and face Grendel after the greatest warrior of the day had already fallen to him. Grendel would have killed all of Beowulfs men, and perhaps broken some more things in Heorot, but I don't think anything beyond that would have changed. Things would still be terrible for Hrothgar's people, but we know that people have tried to fight Grendel before, and nothing more drastic than their gruesome deaths occurred. Also, I think Grendel enjoys ruling in Heorot. He wouldn't destroy it because he loves lording it over Hrothgar that he is in control of the mead hall. Plus if Heorot were gone Hrothgar might just pack up and leave. He wants Hrothgar to stay and provide him with victims.
ReplyDeleteMany people have said that Beowulf is an all mighty hero, and that if Grendel killed him then there would not be much of a story. Grendel would continue to terrorize anyone that he could find wherever he went. From a certain perspective this is true if we assume that Beowulf is the only hero of the story. Following a typical formula for heroic adventure stories, the good guy defeats evil and everyone is happy. But this is not always the case. I think that while the men and women of Heorot would be horrified that Beowulf had been defeated, more people would come to fight Grendel. The text mentions that Beowulf had “long been despised” in his homeland (p. 38). The Geats suspected that he was full of himself, as Unferth does when he comes to Heorot. Since the Geats felt responsible to rectify the feud they had with the Danes for so many years, it is quite likely that they would send more honored warriors to help Hrothgar. All Beowulf was to them before he defeated Grendel was a boastful fighter.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mariya, I think that it is true Beowulf's men would be horrified of what had happened. I think that they would eventually be killed by Grendel. Hrothgar would be extremely distraught that this hero he relied on to save his people was defeated. But eventually the Geats would find out what had happened (this could take a long time) and send more men to help Hrothgar. Maybe even a whole army of Geats would come to help Hrothgar. The Geats appear to be a very honorable peope and I think somehow they would want to create peace with the Danes, even if it took years.
If Beowulf had just lied and boasted about talents that he didn't really have, the book would have been totally different. Grendel would have killed Beowulf and then continued to kill every single person in the mead-hall, which was his plan before Beowulf killed him. And obviously, Beowulf's other's adventures wouldn't have happened because he had been killed. I think Grendel's mother would have minimal involvement, if any. She might have come and joined her son in killing the people, or she might not have been involved at all. The only reason she got involved was because Beowulf killed her son and she wanted revenge for that.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Joe, it would have been really hard for Hrothgar to find anyone else to kill Grendel if they found out that the greatest hero had been killed by him and it's very likely that Grendel would have been there forever, killing people whenever he felt like it. Maybe several of the bravest people would have gotten together and would have killed him eventually, but they would probably be scared off by the fact that the greatest hero they knew had been killed by him.
The future of the Danes would have been very Dire. If this fantasized figure such as Beowolf, fail in defeating Grendel, the Danes would either attempt to build an army of some sort or leave their home land. They would probably turn against Beowolfs men, killing them, as their leader had not followed through with his boasts. If Beowolf were to fail miserably, I would expect the Danes to lash out against Hrothgar, who had trusted Beowolf to end a life of fear and danger. I believe, Heorot, would ultimately left desolate, for Grendel to waste away in. Grendel would perhaps follow the Danes to wherever they migrated to or find a new people to torture. Grendel and his mother would maybe join forces in their lives of misery and search for people to torture for eternity, or at least till the end of their days.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Clarks blog, I really enjoyed reading your alternate ending, revealing that Beowolf may not be the only character in that land that could bring drastic change needed, though with all his mighty talk he appears to be. I had a weak idea about that, with the theory the Danes would create their own military force against Grendel. The quote was excellent, yes it was only one Dane, but to also include the feelings of the Geats, I had overlooked that. The doubts that are uncovered using these quotes, expose the the weakness of their society, proving that words really are just words, and if Beowolf had lost to Grendel, it may not have been doomsday afterall. Though, whether the Danes or Geats would have hope in themselves is another question.
I’m not sure if Grendel’s mother would have gotten involved if Beowulf was killed, but it’s likely that very little in the situation would have actually changed. I suppose it depends on just how badly Beowulf failed. If he was able to give Grendel a good scare (say, by having that little battle-of-the-wills when the two enemy’s hands were locked) then Grendel might have run away scared, and prayed on another group of human beings in the fear that there might be another one in the group that was even more powerful then Beowulf. Or, if Grendel found out that Beowulf was the strongest of the warriors there, he might only increase his attacks because he then knows he cannot be defeated. He might even attack more often because he is enraged that the humans dare hire a hero to try and kill him. On the other hand, if Beowulf had been thrown to shreds right away, I am willing to bet that the only thing that would change from the situation before Beowulf came is that the defender’s moral are lowered, since Grendel would probably find their attempts to kill him with such a pitiful creature humorous. In the end, Grendel would either die at another’s hands, or continue killing until the King and his men all fled the area. Or another, more outlandish, event occurs and changes everything we know about the story completely.
ReplyDelete