Friday, October 30, 2009
Question of the Week (10/30/09)
Using evidence from the text compare and contrast Camelot with Bertilak's court and castle. How are their hosts and inhabitants similar? Different? What bargain is made at the end of Part II? Post your response by Sunday, 11/1, and don't forget to respond to a classmate's response. Happy Halloween!
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Both Castles are very elaborate and filled with rich goods. In the beginning of the tale, Camelot is described as having "costly silk curtains, a canopy over/ of Toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich/ all broidered and bordered with the best gems" (lines 76-78. Obviously King Arthur is very rich, which would make sense considering his castle is filled with the finest things. Bertilak's castle is also very luxurious. In Sir Gawain's chambers there were "heavy silk hangings hemmed all in gold" (line 853) and "A canopy over the couch, clad all with fur/ curtains running on cords, caught with gold rings" (856-857).
ReplyDeleteThere are many similarities between the two courts. Such as, they are both your typical knightly, rich court. However, one difference is the way they view Sir Gawain. In Camelot, Sir Gawain is very high, brother to King Arthur, but still he isn't the most important. However, when he goes to Bertilak's they are honored "that Gawain was [their] guest at God's own feast!" (1036).
The bargain that is made at the end of part two is the host plans to go hunting the next morning, and "whatever [he] wins in the woods [he] will give [Sir Gawain] at eve," (1106). But, whatever Sir Gawain has "earned [he] must offer to [the host]" (1107). They are planning to do a swap at the end of the day.
Both Camelot and Bertilak's castle share the characteristic of being very welcoming to strangers.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Green Knight a scary figure,"on his breast hung a beard, as thick and green as a bush" arrives at Camelot he is welcomed wholeheartedly by Arthur:
"Sir,thou art welcome to this place--lord of this hall am I, and men call me Arthur. Light thee down, and tarry awhile, and what thy will is, that shall we learn after." When a disheveled Gawain arrives at Bertilak's court he is told immediately by his host "Ye are welcome to do here as it likes ye. All that is here is your own to have at your will and disposal."
At Camelot Arthur seems to be refined and the perfect knight but it is revealed that he might have a more rowdy, childlike side when he wants a story before he eats. Sir Gawain's host at first seems rugged and scary but turns out to be a gracious lord and happy that "Gawain was [their] guest at God's own feast!"
The host suggests a deal in which he will go hunting while Gawain can stay in the castle with the women "whatever [he] wins in the woods [he] will give [Sir Gawain] at eve," (1106). But, whatever Sir Gawain has "earned [he] must offer to [the host]" What I don't understand is why Gawain is not offended by this deal. Wouldn't a chivalrous knight like him want to be out hunting with the men rather than in the castle with women?
In response to Megan:
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the difference between how Gawain is treated in Camelot and Bertilak is so different. It is simply that the code of chivalry requires one to be a gracious host. I think that Bertilak exaggerates his reverence to Gawain because it is a form of politeness. It is just like how Arthur is probably not thrilled to see an enormous green man ride into his hall but invites him to stay and feast none the less.
In response to Nick:
ReplyDeleteI could see the host just being polite to Gawain, but at the same time isn't Gawain slightly higher status then the host because he is directly related to the king? Also, I agree that a knight would probably prefer to go hunting then stay at the castle, but perhaps staying with the ladies in the castle isn't that bad for him? It could go either way.
Both of the courts at Camelot and Bertilak are lavish and extravagant. Camelot is described as having "with costly silk curtains, a canopy over,/ Of toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich" (76-78). Bertilak is also described as being very extravagant (855-875). The Hosts of the two courts are also similar. Arthur, although stunned at the entrance of the Green Knight, immediately welcomes him to join in the festivities at Camelot. Bertilak is incredibly welcoming of Sir Gawain, and immediately accommodates him as if Gawain were a king. A good example of this is lines 935-937, "The lord catches his coat, and calls him by name,/ and has him sit beside him, and says in good faith/ No guest on God's earth would he gladlier greet." As shown by the description of Arthur's table settings at Camelot, where you sit at the table is very important and depicts your social status. By having Gawain sit next to Bertilak, Bertilak is showing that he is incredibly welcoming and respects where Gawain comes from. The inhabitants of both courts are also similar; they all are having a wondeful time partying and partaking in the festivities of the holidays. The only slight difference between the two court peoples is that the people of Bertilak's court were more interested in Gawain than the people of Camelot were interested in the Green Knight. The people of Bertilak's court "they questioned him quietly, with queries discreet" (902), which is something the people of Camelot didn't do to the Green Knight (although they never really got the chance to). The ladies of the two courts are described similarly as well. Guenevere, the lady of Camelot, is described as "Fair queen, without a flaw, / she glanced with eyes of grey./ A seemlier that once he saw,/ In truth, no man could say." (80-84). The lady of Bertilak is described as "The fair hues of her flesh, her face and her hair/ And her body and her bearing were beyond praise,/ and excelled the queen herself, as Sir Gawain thought." (942-945). The deal made at the end of part two is that while Bertilak goes hunting with the men, Sir Gawain will stay at the castle and hang out with the women. Whatever the two men earn or win throughout the day will be swapped between the two of them. The host says, "agree now to this:/ Whatever I win in the woods I will give you at eve,/ And all you have earned you must offer to me;/ Swear now, sweet friend to swap as I say,/ whether hands, in the end, be empty or better." (1105-1109)
ReplyDeleteIn response to Nick:
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Bertilak is being completely honest with Gawain. I think that he is using his lady of the court as some sort of bait (at least that's what this seems like). You're right; otherwise, why would Gawain sit around with the ladies all day? He's a knight, and therefore would want to be out hunting. I think that there's something going on behind the scenes with Bertilak that Gawain doesn't know about. I would also have to say that Arthur and Bertilak are both rowdy and childlike for wanting to play games with their guests.
Both Arthur's court and Bertilak's court were extremely hospitable to visitors. For example, despite the Green Knight's apparent oddness, the court of Camelot "marvel" at the Green Knight's appearance. Then Arthur says that the Knight had "found fair welcome (21)." In a similar way, Bertilak's staff offer Sir Gawain hospitality when the watchman "bustles off briskly, and comes back straight, and many servants beside, to receive him the better (34)." A difference between the two castles is revealed when Sir Gawain notices that the fortifications of Bertilak's castle are stronger than any he had seen before, including Camelot's, "a better-made barbican the knight beheld never (33)."
ReplyDeleteAt the end of part two, Bertilak asks that Sir Gawain agree to give him anything Gawain earns that day in exchange for anything Bertilak kills while hunting. Sir Gawain is excited by this proposition, and agrees to "gladly take part (41)."
In response to Megan,
ReplyDeleteThe quote you mention from the original description of Camelot, "costly silk curtains, a canopy over/ of Toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich," brings up some interesting questions about Sir Gawain's travels. The distance from England to the Turkestan region where Arthur got his tapestries is well over 3,000 miles. The farthest distance Sir Gawain could have traveled within England is less than 500 miles. Now, since Sir Gawain barely manages to get to Bertilak's castle alive, I don't think it would have been possible for a merchant, or even a string of merchants, to get goods from east Asia to England in the Middle Ages. (Note, the Middle Ages were not a high point for the silk road.)
Both these castles and courts are very rich, attractive. Camelot is described on the inside as having "costly silk curtains, a canopy over, of Toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich, all broidered and bordered with the best gems ever brought into Britain.." (17). Bertilak's castle is also described as being very elegant and perfect: "So vied there for his view that verily it seemed a castle cut of paper for a king's feast" (34). It did seem as Bertilak's castle was described as being a much sturdier castle, ready for anything or anyone that might want to destroy it, or at least it was emphasized more with Bertilak's castle: "The bridge hung high in air; the gates were bolted fast; the walls well framed to bear the fury of the blast" (33).
ReplyDeleteThe hosts of both courts were similar because they both are very courteous, and chivalric in their behaviors. They both accept visitors with open arms (Bertilak says) : "To this house you are heartily welcome: what is here is wholly yours, to have in your power and sway" (34). The general atmosphere that each court had was different though. In King Arthur's court, there was a very jolly, festive vibe: "...with feasting and fellowship and carefree mirth...such gaiety and glee, glorious to hear, brave din by day, dancing by night" (16). In Bertilak's castle, on the other hand, the atmosphere is a lot quieter, with less movement: "They questioned him quietly, with queries discreet" (36).
The agreement made at the end of part II is that Bertilak will give anything he catches when he goes hunting in exchange for what Gawain earns that day.
In response to Aaron:
I don't think that just because it was harder to get curtains from such a far off place it means that it is hard to believe that they actually had silk curtains in Camelot. In fact, I think the fact that Turkestan is so far away and that the silk curtains and tapestries are so hard to get only makes King Arthur look richer, and makes the curtains seem much more valuable than they already would seem to be.
Question of the Week 10/30/09
ReplyDeleteThe Court of Camelot is composed of vibrant personalities. The guests remind me of the holiday they're celebrating, that of the New Year. The group of people are described as “many good knights and gay his guests were” who delighted in “carefree mirth” (38, 40). The guests are full of life, and described as “noble knights” and “loveliest ladies” (51,52). The queen seems to be placed on a pedestal of beauty, in the way in which she was described. She is placed in the “best seated above” (73). She is blatantly described as a “Fair queen, without a flaw” (81). Guenevere is also surrounded by the elaborate decorations of the castle including the “costly silk curtains”, a canopy of “tapestries rich” decked out with the “best gems” (76-78). When Guenevere and Camelot is described, aesthetics are a key point; however, the actual depth of the queen or her personality are left a mystery. The King is characterized as “boyish”, reiterating this idea when he refuses to eat until a story is told. He is full of energy, where he is “so busy his young blood, his brain so wild” (86,89). Sir Gawain is described as a most chivalrous character who is “most true and in speech most courteous knight” (637-638). The Green Knight is a mysterious character, one that awes the crowd with his striking appearance and his set behavior. There are numerous lines giving great description to the green the knight wears. “There were stares on all sides” from the court of Camelot upon the knight (231). Bertilak's castle is also described as a place of lavish decoration. Everything from his castle's curtains to its floors, is adorned with fur, “gold rings”, and is “well-furnished” (855-859). The People of Bertilak's court are “courteous”, welcoming Sir Gawain but similar to that of Camelot's court, relaxing “with light talk and laughter” (860). Again, similar to the Camelot's court, the people have much curiosity towards the newcomers, “questioned him quietly with queries discreet” (902). There is a slight difference between the courts in that, Camelot focuses much of its attention on the Green Knight who is the mystery under the spotlight; whereas, Bertilak's focus is on Sir Gawain.
In response to Nick, I agree that the welcoming behavior was seen by both courts. As soon as Sir Gawain enters Bertilak's castle “a costly cloak they cast upon his shoulders” (878). Same goes with the Camelot's court towards The Green Knight. It doesn't seem so, with the court's awkward silence as they were “so slackened their speech apace” (244). However, they were quiet out of respect as “not all, for dread but some of courteous grace” granted the King Arthur to speak before them.
Camelot and Bertilak's castle are very similar, as they are both opulent and lavish, and whose courts contain many knights and nobility who love to party on the holidays. The riches of Camelot are displayed by a description of Guenevere's dais, which is "well-decked and dully arrayed with costly silk cushions, a canopy over, of Toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich, all broidered and bordered with the best gems ever brought into Britain" (lines 75-78). Likewise, Bertilak's castle also contains many riches, evidenced by the room where Gawain stays as a guest, which had "heavy silk hangings hemmed all in gold, coverlets and and counterpanes curiously wrought, a canopy over the couch, clad all in fur, curtains running on cords, caught to gold rings" (lines 854-857). Also, Gawain experiences both courts during christmastime, and in both much partying, feasting, and celebration is going on.
ReplyDeleteThe bargain made at the end of Part II is that Bertilak and Gawain will exchange things they gain that day, for Bertilak will go hunting in the woods, but Gawain will stay in the castle. Gawain, the picture of a couteous knight, agrees, saying he will "gladly take part" (line 1111).
In response to Nick:
I agree with you saying that there is no difference between how Gawain is treated at Camelot and at Bertilak's castle. At Camelot he is obviously important, as he is the kings nephew, but at Bertilak's castle, he is somewhat the guest of honor, due to the code of chivalry, which I'm sure promotes graciousness towards guest.
I forgot to answer bargain question : Basically, Bertilak and Gawain agree on an exchange of goods. Bertilak will hand over anything he hunts in the woods. Reciprocally, Gawain will give Bertilak anything he gains that day.
ReplyDeleteAs most people have said so far, the two castles are certainly more similar than different. They are both very well decorated and lavish, covered with "costly curtains" (line 76) and "costly silk cushions" (line 854). It would also appear that silk was the "thing to have" at the time, because in both accounts it is mentioned that they are decorated with some kind of silk tapestries or cushions. Another thing that was similar about the two castles was the queen (or lady) of each castle: both Guenevere and Bertilak's Lady are some of the most fair ladies in all the land. Essentially, the castles are idealized paradises of courtly life.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there are also some differences between the two castles. As this has been a topic of a slight bit of contention, I'll throw my support in on the side of Gawain being treated much differently at Bertilak's castle. Sure, he's akin to the guest of honor, but he isn't treated with the same amount of respect and honor as he his at Camelot.
The bargain made at the end of Part II is that once Bertilak has decided he is going to go out on the hunt, he tells Gawain that he will give Gawain anything that he successfully hunts in the woods, but in return Gawain has to give Bertilak anything that he gains while staying in the castle. Of course Gawain agrees, as we know he is the quintessence of courtliness and gentility.
Also, nice job Brittney - a lot of the things you pointed out I hadn't though of before I read your post!
One of the biggest differences that between the two castles, (which was already mentioned above), is Sir Gawain's status within them. In Camelot, Gawain seems to be quite low in the grand scheme of things. He is Arthur's brother, and when he leaves on his journey his departure is mourned, but it must be noted that he only undertook the quest because his life was worth so much less than anyone else's in the first place. He says, "I am the weakest, well i know, and of wit the feeblest, and the loss of my life would be the least of any." (p. 23). On the other end of the spectrum, when he arrives in Bertilak, he is greeted as a well known hero. The host realizes that "their guest beside the fireside is Gawain himself" which indicates that Gawain is well known and admired before he even arrives. They call Gawain, "the father of fine manners," and the host says that "no guest on God's good earth would he gladlier meet." It is clear that Gawain is the most important person in the castle at Bertilak, where at Camelot he is only the least of a massive cohort of legendary heros.
ReplyDeleteMany people have said the same things about Camelot and Bertilak, there would be no point in repeating them again. I certainly agree with Scotty that silk seems to be highly prized in both places, it really represents wealth and prosperity. I got the feeling that Camelot was supposed to be a much more open environment- the main court was always filled with people having a good time. "Each fair guest freely there partakes, and nothing loth; twelve dishes before each pair; good beer and bright wine both (Lines 126-129)." This is not to say that Bertilak isn't filled with people having fun as well, Bertilak just seemed a lot more mysterious to me. The fact that the castle magically appears when Gawain prays to find a place to stay is suspicious- like Sasha said, I feel like there is probably something going on in that castle that Gawain isn't realizing.
ReplyDeleteThis draws into how each Castle greets the newcomers- in Camelot I feel like the people are much more used to having a good time with themselves, and new people aren't coming in so much. They certainly greet the Green Knight pleasantly, but it is awkward for them when he first comes. It is obvious this doesn't happen a lot; especially by how the guests talk in hushed tones of the Knight's rhetoric. "All the onlookers eyed him, and edged nearer, And awaited in wonder what he would do, For many sights had they seen, but such a one never (Lines 237-239)." But when Gawain goes to Bertilak, the people of the castle seem much ready to accept him, almost as if they are expecting him. "Robes richly wrought they brought him right soon, To change there in chamber and choose what he would (Lines 862-863)." While one could argue that all of this is merely chivalry, I feel like the people of Bertilak are acting dubiously welcoming.
The bargain at the end of part 2 is a game that the host prepares: if Gawain stays in the castle and hangs out with the ladies, the host will go hunting. At the end of each day, the host and Gawain will exchange their winnings (for Gawain will playing games in the castle.) This is very suspicious, for in response to Sasha about how Gawain is treated, I agree that Bertilak wants to use his lady as a bait for Gawain. If Gawain didn't have the women to keep him company, I think he would refuse to stay in the castle while Bertilak got to go hunting.
(this is Clark)
As all the others have said, both of the castles are very beautiful. Camelot has "costly silk curtains, a canopy over, of Toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich, all broidered and bordered with the best gems ever brought into Britain" and Bertilak's castle has "A canopy over the couch, clad all with fur, curtains running on cords, caught with gold rings" in Gawain's guest room. Both the hosts are also very courteous. Arthur readily welcomes the uninvited Green Knight, and when Gawain enters Bertilak's castle a “a costly cloak they cast upon his shoulders”.
ReplyDeleteThe bargain that is made at the end of Part II is that Gawain and Bertilak will both exchange what the have at the end of the day. However, Bertilak is going to go out hunting, and Gawain will stay at the castle with the ladies.
Both Camelot and Bertilak are extraordinarily wealthy. I'm sure you've already read the same quote several times so I'm not going to repeat it. They are both lavishly decorated, filled with silks and other finery. The people are very kind and welcoming and, despite having unexpected visitors, let them in, and offer them all the comforts they could possibly ask for. The people of both courts seem to be very gracious and polite. They are also very respectful of their guests. Both seem to have beautiful queens ruling with the kings. Guenevere, Arthur's queen is described as being flawless and Bertilak's queen is also praised. Camelot especially is described as being a very festive place, with fifteen days of feasting for Christmas. Their treatment of Sir Gawain in the two palaces is different. In Bertilak's palace, he is the guest of honored and treated very respectfully, but in Camelot he is one of the lowest and weakest knights in the Round Table, or so he says.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of Part 2, the two man plan an exchange. Gawain will give Bertilak whatever he gets when he hunts and Bertilak will give Gawain what he hunts.
In response to Scott:
I agree, silk really seems to be a symbol of wealth and prosperity in this time period. If a court has a lot of silk, it means that they are extremely well off.
In response to Clark and Sasha,
ReplyDeleteI too think it's kind of sketchy that the castle simply appears when Gawain prays for a place to stay. There's definitely something going on there. I bet we'll find out when it comes time for the bargain to be fulfilled.
Both Camelot and Bertilak's castle show extreme wealth and power. Their wealth is clearly shown through the rich and beautiful tapestries and drapings that cover each castle. "With costly silk curtains, a canopy over, of toulouse and Turkestan tapestries rich (p.17)" This quote describes the beautiful cloth and expensive silk that cover cameltos castle, however a very similar description of wealth is seen in Bertilak's castle as well. Bertilak's caslte is described as having bedding that is leaden "with heavy silk hangings hemmed all in gold, a canopy over the couch, clad with fur (p.35)" Wealth however is not the only similarity between the two castles, the courts are also quite similar. Both hosts Camelot and Bertilak readily welcome strangers into their home, even during holy times of prayer. The Green Knight barges into camelots New years feast without an invitation, yet camelot welcomes him to stay as a fellow knight and comrade. Bertilak does the same thing when Sir Gawain barges into his caslte hoping to find lodging for the night. Bertilak not only shown him hospitaloty for one night, but as many as he likes. He asks Gawain to stay as long as he likes. The similarities between these two Knights are no surprise, because they are following the code of chivalry that every Knight is bound to.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sasha:
I agree that the casltes are similar because of their lavish goods, and expensive fabriccs. I also agree about the hospitality that the Knights show without any hesitation whatsoever.
Well, obviously, being a castle in an old knightly tale, both of the people in said castles are extremely chilverous. I believe, however, that whilst people in both castles have a touch of insanity, the people in King Arthur's castle suffer it to a much greater extent. This is shown with the Green Knight bursting in, playing his head-chopping game, whilst the King watches and doesn't take off the Knight's head for interefering/bursting in/anything else that probably annoyed the King. Since he had the power, there really is no reason not to use it...
ReplyDeleteIn response to Scott: Silk wasn't just seen as a symbol of wealth. It was, quite litterally, needed in a castle during a story of this kind, otherwise people would not take it seriously. Stories are oftentimes fantasies that the writer believes his audiance has, whether that is to be a strong warrior or to get the girl in the end is immaterial. Silk is needed to propel the image of fantasy along. Who wants to be invited to stay at a castle if there are no comforts of a regular castle there? On the flip side of the coin, this is probably why the negative traits of the castle (like the politics played inside) are ignored, since only a very strange few could enjoy that kind of story (I proudly admit to being one of those few).
Both castles are decorated beautifully, covered with "costly curtains" (line 76) and "costly silk cushions" (line 854), and are decorated with silk in either the form of tapestries or cushions. Both castles also have queens, Guenevere and Bertilak's Lady, who are said to be extremely beautiful. Though the castles are more alike than they are different, there is a huge difference between the way in which Gawain is treated in each. He seems to be far more honored and respected at Bertilak's court and castle than he was in Camelot.
ReplyDeleteThe bargain made at the end of Part II is that Bertilak will give Gawain anything that he successfully hunts in the woods, and in return Gawain has to give Bertilak anything that he gains while staying in the castle.
"whatever [he] wins in the woods [he] will give [Sir Gawain] at eve," (1106). But, whatever Sir Gawain has "earned [he] must offer to [the host]"
In response to Nick: I never thought about it before, but I agree that it seems strange that Bertilak would leave Sir Gawain with the women rather than take him hunting. I understand why now though....but if I had posted this on time, I would be very confused. it is interesting that Gawain didn't say anything about being excluded from the hunt though.
ReplyDelete