The first difference that pops out at me when I think of these two heroes is that Gawain is portrayed as being more modest, whereas Beowulf isn't really described as being modest, even though he never boasts about himself or leads us to think that he is better than anyone else. Also, Gawain is described as having flaws, like when he flinched as the Green Knight started to take his first blow at his head. This shows us that even a courageous and chivalric knight like Gawain can have those flaws that every human has. Beowulf on the other hand, never got scared or ran away from his enemy. In fact, when he fought against the dragon, he went as far as dying so as to not go against the chivalric code. Since I don't really know if usually in other chivalric stories the knight is portrayed more like Gawain (having flaws) or Beowulf (ideal in his way of being chivalric), I don't really know what is traditional or untraditional. But I would suspect that the fact that Gawain is portrayed as having defects just like all humans would be untraditional, whereas a character like Beowulf who is described as being almost godlike was the more traditional way of describing knights.
Sir Gawain and Beowulf represent the ideal of a hero during the time that they were created. These ideal heros are similar in many ways. For one thing, they both follow a code of honor and procedure that they strive to live by. For Beowulf that code leads him to go out of his way to help those who need his special monster slaying talents. For Gawain that code leads him to search for months on end and pass through many dangers in order to be beheaded. This illustrates that both heros put themselves second, and strive to serve others even if it puts them into danger. One difference is the stance on modesty that each hero takes. Beowulf is very immodest. His loud bragging and going on about his prowess is seen not as outrageous, but as part of his code of conduct. His claims that he has killed so many monsters in the past are seen as a promise to Hrothgar that he really is capable and willing to help slay Grendel. Gawain is completely different. Although we see as the story goes on that he truly is a heroic and worthy knight, he comes on the journey in the first place only because he thinks that he is the least of the knights at Camelot. Taking respect is much less important to him than earning respect. However, Gawain is not completely without self assuredness. After the Green Knight finally takes his ax stroke at Gawains Head, Gawain, finding himself unhurt, leaps away and brandishes his sword at the Green Knight, saying, "If you make another move I shall meet it midway, and promptly, I promise you, pay back each blow with brand." So Gawain may be modest, but he knows that he is a mighty warrior as well as a gentle knight.
I would disagree that Beowulf never bragged or said he was better than anyone else. When he told the story of the swimming contest in Heorot, he claimed that he was better than the man who he raced against, even though he ended up losing the race, and he brags often during the beginning of the story about all of his deeds and past monster slaying encounters that qualify him to be the one who can slay Grendel for Hrothgar.
Beowulf and Gawain are really the same hero. They portray what the ultimate hero of the time was.However, the two also show an evolution in human thought. While Beowulf is praised and is a hero because of his physical strength, Gawain's strength are his characters and manners. Both periods still viewed the world as a place full of mythical beasts. They also still placed great importance on loyalty to your lord. But while Beowulf shows tribute to his lord with only material gain, Gawain honors him by his good manners and chivalrous character. As well as placing more importance on social behavior I think a difference between Beowulf and Gawain is that some Christian messages are starting to come out in Beowulf but hit you full force in "The Tale of the Green Knight"
I think that there are certainly some similarities between Beowulf and Gawain that allow them to both be classified as "heroes", however in my opinion there are more differences than similarities. For example, the tale of Beowulf is an epic saga of brutal battle against monsters that depicts Beowulf's unmatchable prowess in combat, while the tale of Gawain is more about how to be a good knight and how Gawain is someone who should be looked up to. Another difference to point out is that while Gawain follows the very traditional heroic path of a knight, Beowulf follows a much different heroic path. Gawain is a hero in the romantic, chivalric sense, while Beowulf is a hero in the guttural sense. One similarity between them is that they are both extremely brave and courageous, even if Gawain shrinks from the first blow of the Green Knight. As far as the conversation between Joe and Gaia goes, I would have to agree with Joe - even if Beowulf's intentions were good, it can't be said that he isn't a braggart (part of a whole act is devoted to him bragging!).
I think that one of the biggest differences between Gawain and Beowulf is that Gawain has an explicit set of virtues that he feels he must follow to be a good knight. These virtues- beneficence, brotherly love, pure mind and manners, and compassion, are what Gawain demonstrates to the best of his ability. He proves to Bertilak that he is the most worthy knight in all of the land because he is able to abide to them better than any other knight has. Gawain initially demonstrates beneficience in the beginning of the tale by the taking the challenge- he feels it will be a good thing for him to do. We see much of Gawain proving he has a pure mind and manners when he resists Lady Bertilak's temptations. However, he fails when he takes the girdle and demonstrates he isn't impeccable. He will lie to protect his own life. I don't remember Beowulf having a set of virtues that he had to follow either than that he wanted to show he was the best at everything. But in response to Nick, I certainly agree that a lot of this had to do with the time period. In Beowulf's time, the quintessential hero had more power physically. As the idea of a hero became more humane and the principle of chivalry started playing into things, the ideal hero was more about who had the strongest character. To encapsulate, Beowulf and Gawain are both heroic in a traditional way pertaining to their time periods because they seem flawless. The untraditional part is the fact that the author portrays Gawain as having flaws but is still heroic.
While both Beowulf and Gawain are dead ringer for heroic archetypes, they are different types of heroes. Beowulf is a much more ideal hero, as throughout the story he commits no transgressions, always acting in a perfect way, be it from offering to slay a monster for another kingdom to ruling his own land with dignity. He is also very proud of his own accomplishments, and is prepared to defend his reputation if anyone brings it into question (like Unferth did). Gawain, on the hand, is a much more humble and realistic hero. While he always tries to follow the code of chivalry, he does conceal the belt that Lady Bertilak gave him, therefore lying to his host. This one of act of deceit, while understandable, makes him seem much more human than Beowulf, who has no fear whatsoever for his life. Also, Gawain flinches away from the Green Knight's first blow, showing he a much more lifelike hero than Beowulf, who attacks all manner of monsters without any trepidation. Gawain is also very modest, for when he volunteers to take Arthur's place in the beheading game, he says his death would cause the least loss to the court.
In response to Nick: I think you make a great point in saying that the character traits that Beowulf and Gawain are admired for represent the evolution of human thought. I don't think that good manners were a part of the warrior code in the days of Beowulf, and also, Christianity is much more prominent in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" than in "Beowulf", showing the increase in the religion's power over the course of the Middle Ages.
Both knights are regarded as heroes and loved by all; however, there are many more differences between the two than similarities. One difference between the knights is their modesty. Beowulf is anything but modest. When he shows up he boasts about his great accomplishments, how great he is, and how he will never back down from a fight. However, Gawain, is much more modest. To justify him being the knight to fight the Green Knight, he says that he is weak and witless. But later on in the story, this is proven wrong. Despite his claims, Gawain turns out to be a strong knight (he survived the wilderness during winter) and very cunning.
Both knights are different because they are invented to represent and difference aspect of the chivalric code. Beowulf is supposed to be the brave strong knight that gets rid of the evil. In contrast, Gawain represents courtesy and wits. There are almost opposite ends of the spectrum.
Another difference is the type of character they are. Beowulf is almost a supernatural hero (excessively tall and strong), and your classic idealist hero. However, Gawain is not as supernatural, although still a much better person than most. He is portrayed as having flaws and being human. Beowulf is brute forces, whereas Gawain is tricky.
I agree that overall Beowulf would be your traditional hero, and Gawain more untraditional. But at the same time, perhaps Gawain would be the tradition hero of his time.
I also agree with Joe that Beowulf most definitely was a bragger. During the entire section of the swimming match it was all about why Beowulf was better then his friend.
I think that there are many similarities and differences between Beowulf and Gawain. They are similar in that they are both great men that go on an adventure in order to do what's right for others, not worrying about their own safety. Beowulf risked his life to kill Grendel and Gawain risked his own safety to go the see the Green Knight in order to save King Arthur's life. But they are also different in many ways. Gawain is a very modest man and says that he would be the least loss to the court, while Beowulf take a lot of time to explain how great he is and how he won the swimming race. Another key difference is that Beowulf is the perfect example of a hero. He always does the right thing and he's powerful and ultimately completes his task. On the other hand, it's easier to relate to Gawain. He seems more human, more like regular people who have flaws, which Beowulf does not have. Even though both of them are heroes, they're different kinds of heroes. Gawain is a chivalric knight, whose best quality is politeness and kindness. Beowulf is a hero in that he's strong and brave and a powerful person who can kill anyone who stands in his way. I think this has to do the time periods in which the stories were written. In the time of Beowulf, a hero was a very powerful person, but in the time period of Sir Gawain, the idea of a perfect hero changed and became what Sir Gawain was.
In response to Scott and Joe: I agree, Beowulf really did brag a lot. While Gawain was a modest man who claimed that he was the weakest knight in the Round Table, a lot of time was devoted to Beowulf explaining all his heroic deeds.
I would have to say that "hero" wise, they are about the same. They both portray classic heroic characteristics- such as strength, wisdom, chivalry, courage, etc. The differences between them are more personality than they are "heroic-ness". Gawain is modest, and does not boast about himself to make his character seem more manly or brave. He doesn't refer to feats he accomplished in the past, and he doesn't make excuses for himself. Beowulf, on the other hand, is very boastful and conceited. He brags about beasts he has previously slain, contests he's won, etc. When Beowulf was accused of losing a swimming race, he made up an impossible explanation as to why he was the better swimmer, and simply lost due to his own ability to slay other creatures. I think that Beowulf is more of an obvious hero; strong, confident, and courageous. Gawain is more subtly a hero; modest, competent, and determined. Despite their differences, both heros never gave up when faced with a challenge.
in response to harini: I would have to agree that the definition of a hero had changed from Beowulf's time to Gawain's time. You're right that during Gawain's time, being a hero was being a courageous Knight; not just a macho warrior. During Beowulf's time, he was the typical, idealistic hero. During Gawain's time, Gawain was the idealistic hero. They both were heros in their own times.
I agree that there is a definite contrast between the boastful Beowulf and the humble Gawain. Both know that they are great warriors but Gawain is also praised for his humility and selflessness. I think that it is much easier to identify with Gawain than with Beowulf because he displays many qualities that we look for in heroes today (bravery, politeness, strength, humility) whereas Beowulf comes from a completely different time with different values. In our times we don't value being able to plunder a lot of treasure
I think that beowulf is a little bit less believable than Sir Gawain because of how he manages to kill even imaginary monsters. I think also that Sir Gawain was more chivalric that Beowulf because he didnt look at himself as being better than others while and would never show off, while Beowulf would waltz into a castle and began telling the other people there of all the great things he had accomplished. These two heors are similar in the way that they both spend their lives working to protect and save people from harm.
Beowulf and Gawain both share some very fundamental similarities. Most notably, they are both part of their culture's nobility. They then both fight monsters and journey far away from their home on a quest. Their similarities end when they are received by their respective hosts. Gawain is immediately at pains to behave modestly and politely in Bertilak's castle. Beowulf, on the other hand, although he is moderately polite, begins boasting as soon as he arrives at Hrothgar's mead-hall. When Beowulf confronts his monster, Beowulf fights and kills him immediately. Because of the nature of Gawain's meeting, however, Gawain refrains from fighting his monster. In this way, Beowulf comes across as a strong/powerful war-focussed hero, while Gawain comes across as a more tempered, cautious hero.
Beowulf and Gawain each represent a different type of heroism. Beowulf's hero fights for what he believes in no matter what the cost, and is happy to collect the benefits for his victories. Gawain, on the other hand, fights in the way the code of chivalry dictates and humbly tries not to benefit from his actions. Both types of heroism were valued by the cultures that created them. Each one was traditional in its own culture, and both are rather untraditional in ours. However, since the Gawain hero is descended from the Beowulf hero, the Beowulf hero is most likely the more traditional of the two.
Sir Gawain and Beowulf are undoubtedly heroes, but they have different heroic styles and aren't the same heroic type. Gawain is humble and is not comfortable boasting and telling everyone about his heroic feats from the past in the same way Beowulf is. Gawain and Beowulf have reputations of being great knights, and Beowulf embraces and encourages this while Gawain does the opposite. Both heroes observe the chivalric code and pride themselves on it, but a difference is that Gawain recognizes himself as having flaws while Beowulf makes it known that is an invincible and always noble being. They both knowingly risk their lives (Beowulf to kill mythical creatures, Gawain to save King Arthur). The difference in personality is what really distinguishes these two heroes.
In response to Harini and Teddy: I agree that Gawain is more realistic and easier to relate to. He is more of a human with flaws as opposed to Beowulf who has inhuman strength and bravery.
I agree that Gawain is a more realistic character. Beowulf is certainly more idealized. But does a hero become less of a hero when s/he becomes more real?
Both Beowulf and Sir Gawain are extremely chivalrous. However, Beowulf is known for his strength and bravery, while Gawain is famous for his honesty. Beowulf was heroic in a traditional sense because he defeated Grendal, who was your classic monster. He was portrayed as entirely flawless, and acted as such throughout the story, never making a mistake or faltering for an instant. He was also quite fond of bragging about himself. In contrast, a more nontraditional hero, Gawain, did not make a single boast. He even shows modesty, for example, when he explains that he should be the one to take the green knight's challenge because he is the least valuable to Arthur's court. He is shown to be human and make mistakes, such as when he takes the girdle and does not offer it to his host at the end of the day, and when he flinches as the axe is about to come down on him. Gawain didn't slay a mnonster, instead he is heroic because he was an honorable person, and when he made a mistrak, he is determind to learned from it and not make it again; he wears the green girdle as a reminder of his mistake of not entirely honoring his promise to the host.
In response to Eva: I really agree that the main difference in the end between these two characters is their personalities. As we said in class on Friday, Gawain is portrayed as more of a multi-dimensional character, whereas Beowulf is more two dimensional, mostly because we don't see his "human" qualities. He is described as being purely heroic with no human flaws as evident as Gawain's.
In response to Aaron:I think that someone who is more realistic is more heroic than someone who is not. I think this because when they are more realistic, it generally means that they have more of an obstacle in themselves to overcome. For example, while Beowulf seemed to have a inner moral compass that could never go astray, we see in Gawain, because his mistakes, that every previous good thing he has done has been a product of his choice after a decision making process. However, being realistic doesn't make him more traditionally heroic.
Both Sir Gawain and Beowulf can be viewed as mighty and epic heroes. Bravery is a trait that both men share. They throw themselves into dangerous situations with little to no thought of their own safety. Consistency is a word that was brought up as I read through some of my thoughts on this matter in an earlier question of the week. Throughout both stories, Beowulf and Gawain repeatedly live up to their reputations as a hero by fighting off a beast or resisting temptation. The controversial point of Gawain's decision to accept the Lady's girdle is a stab at his heroic image, so to is his wincing reaction to the potential slice of the Green Knight's Axe. These two situations lead us back to the topic of perspective. In my opinion, Sir Gawain represents a hero. However, if judging with the chivalric code in mind, he did not uphold his Knight's duties, because he allowed fear for his life to enter his decision process, taking away his credibility as a Hero. Also untraditional to a hero's behavior, Beowulf would resemble some “big-headed” person or some one with an ego about themselves. At least, that was the opinion that I came to have when I read over his explanations of himself. He would put so much energy into explaining his image to the people, just to convince them he could protect him. I think the notion of accepting help is something that is disputatious in defining a Hero. I think that when defining a Hero, the comparison to a human can devalue the their heroic reputation or conversely boost it. For example, Beowulf finally gives in to accepting another's help in his last battle. Subsequently, Gawain selfishly thought of himself in taking the Girdle and humanly flinched. These moments, exploit the flaws of these two arguable heroes. I think that depending on the time period or experiences you have, people have different views of what a hero is. I find that a Hero is less of an idealized character such as Beowulf, and more of a flawed and modest character like that of Sir Gawain. In response to Nick, I completely agree with you. In that both men fit the mold of a Hero for their time. I did not recognize the ever present commitment to the Lord. However, it is true, more so in Gawain with the pentangle reference and as for Beowulf the sharing of wealth emphasized by Hrothgar in his tellings of Greek tragedians.
The most obvious similarity to me is that both Gawain and Beowulf live by a code that they strive to uphold in everyway. Gawain lives by the chivalric code held up by knights, he is polite, he never turns down a challenge, he is not a coward, and he respects woman greatly. Beowulf also follows all of these aspects of a knight, he certainly never turns down a challenge and he is very very courageous. Another obvious similarity between the two men is the epic journeys that they partake in. Gawain faces many a beast and burden along his journey to find the Green Knight, he kills many a giant and slays many a beast. This is quite similar to the challenges that Beowulf faces, along his journey he fights 3 mighty beasts, Grendel, Grendels mother, and the dragon. Their journeys and their upholding of a code is what makes them so similar.
In response to Clark: I liked that you brought up the specific virtues that Knight must possess. I think it added to what you were saying in a very positive way. Good job.
The first difference that pops out at me when I think of these two heroes is that Gawain is portrayed as being more modest, whereas Beowulf isn't really described as being modest, even though he never boasts about himself or leads us to think that he is better than anyone else. Also, Gawain is described as having flaws, like when he flinched as the Green Knight started to take his first blow at his head. This shows us that even a courageous and chivalric knight like Gawain can have those flaws that every human has. Beowulf on the other hand, never got scared or ran away from his enemy. In fact, when he fought against the dragon, he went as far as dying so as to not go against the chivalric code. Since I don't really know if usually in other chivalric stories the knight is portrayed more like Gawain (having flaws) or Beowulf (ideal in his way of being chivalric), I don't really know what is traditional or untraditional. But I would suspect that the fact that Gawain is portrayed as having defects just like all humans would be untraditional, whereas a character like Beowulf who is described as being almost godlike was the more traditional way of describing knights.
ReplyDeleteSir Gawain and Beowulf represent the ideal of a hero during the time that they were created. These ideal heros are similar in many ways. For one thing, they both follow a code of honor and procedure that they strive to live by. For Beowulf that code leads him to go out of his way to help those who need his special monster slaying talents. For Gawain that code leads him to search for months on end and pass through many dangers in order to be beheaded. This illustrates that both heros put themselves second, and strive to serve others even if it puts them into danger.
ReplyDeleteOne difference is the stance on modesty that each hero takes. Beowulf is very immodest. His loud bragging and going on about his prowess is seen not as outrageous, but as part of his code of conduct. His claims that he has killed so many monsters in the past are seen as a promise to Hrothgar that he really is capable and willing to help slay Grendel. Gawain is completely different. Although we see as the story goes on that he truly is a heroic and worthy knight, he comes on the journey in the first place only because he thinks that he is the least of the knights at Camelot. Taking respect is much less important to him than earning respect. However, Gawain is not completely without self assuredness. After the Green Knight finally takes his ax stroke at Gawains Head, Gawain, finding himself unhurt, leaps away and brandishes his sword at the Green Knight, saying, "If you make another move I shall meet it midway, and promptly, I promise you, pay back each blow with brand." So Gawain may be modest, but he knows that he is a mighty warrior as well as a gentle knight.
In response to Gaia:
ReplyDeleteI would disagree that Beowulf never bragged or said he was better than anyone else. When he told the story of the swimming contest in Heorot, he claimed that he was better than the man who he raced against, even though he ended up losing the race, and he brags often during the beginning of the story about all of his deeds and past monster slaying encounters that qualify him to be the one who can slay Grendel for Hrothgar.
Beowulf and Gawain are really the same hero. They portray what the ultimate hero of the time was.However, the two also show an evolution in human thought. While Beowulf is praised and is a hero because of his physical strength, Gawain's strength are his characters and manners. Both periods still viewed the world as a place full of mythical beasts. They also still placed great importance on loyalty to your lord. But while Beowulf shows tribute to his lord with only material gain, Gawain honors him by his good manners and chivalrous character. As well as placing more importance on social behavior I think a difference between Beowulf and Gawain is that some Christian messages are starting to come out in Beowulf but hit you full force in "The Tale of the Green Knight"
ReplyDeleteI think that there are certainly some similarities between Beowulf and Gawain that allow them to both be classified as "heroes", however in my opinion there are more differences than similarities. For example, the tale of Beowulf is an epic saga of brutal battle against monsters that depicts Beowulf's unmatchable prowess in combat, while the tale of Gawain is more about how to be a good knight and how Gawain is someone who should be looked up to. Another difference to point out is that while Gawain follows the very traditional heroic path of a knight, Beowulf follows a much different heroic path. Gawain is a hero in the romantic, chivalric sense, while Beowulf is a hero in the guttural sense. One similarity between them is that they are both extremely brave and courageous, even if Gawain shrinks from the first blow of the Green Knight. As far as the conversation between Joe and Gaia goes, I would have to agree with Joe - even if Beowulf's intentions were good, it can't be said that he isn't a braggart (part of a whole act is devoted to him bragging!).
ReplyDeleteI think that one of the biggest differences between Gawain and Beowulf is that Gawain has an explicit set of virtues that he feels he must follow to be a good knight. These virtues- beneficence, brotherly love, pure mind and manners, and compassion, are what Gawain demonstrates to the best of his ability. He proves to Bertilak that he is the most worthy knight in all of the land because he is able to abide to them better than any other knight has. Gawain initially demonstrates beneficience in the beginning of the tale by the taking the challenge- he feels it will be a good thing for him to do. We see much of Gawain proving he has a pure mind and manners when he resists Lady Bertilak's temptations. However, he fails when he takes the girdle and demonstrates he isn't impeccable. He will lie to protect his own life. I don't remember Beowulf having a set of virtues that he had to follow either than that he wanted to show he was the best at everything. But in response to Nick, I certainly agree that a lot of this had to do with the time period. In Beowulf's time, the quintessential hero had more power physically. As the idea of a hero became more humane and the principle of chivalry started playing into things, the ideal hero was more about who had the strongest character. To encapsulate, Beowulf and Gawain are both heroic in a traditional way pertaining to their time periods because they seem flawless. The untraditional part is the fact that the author portrays Gawain as having flaws but is still heroic.
ReplyDeleteWhile both Beowulf and Gawain are dead ringer for heroic archetypes, they are different types of heroes. Beowulf is a much more ideal hero, as throughout the story he commits no transgressions, always acting in a perfect way, be it from offering to slay a monster for another kingdom to ruling his own land with dignity. He is also very proud of his own accomplishments, and is prepared to defend his reputation if anyone brings it into question (like Unferth did).
ReplyDeleteGawain, on the hand, is a much more humble and realistic hero. While he always tries to follow the code of chivalry, he does conceal the belt that Lady Bertilak gave him, therefore lying to his host. This one of act of deceit, while understandable, makes him seem much more human than Beowulf, who has no fear whatsoever for his life. Also, Gawain flinches away from the Green Knight's first blow, showing he a much more lifelike hero than Beowulf, who attacks all manner of monsters without any trepidation. Gawain is also very modest, for when he volunteers to take Arthur's place in the beheading game, he says his death would cause the least loss to the court.
In response to Nick:
I think you make a great point in saying that the character traits that Beowulf and Gawain are admired for represent the evolution of human thought. I don't think that good manners were a part of the warrior code in the days of Beowulf, and also, Christianity is much more prominent in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" than in "Beowulf", showing the increase in the religion's power over the course of the Middle Ages.
oops that last message was meant to be from Keegan, but I accidently used a different google account
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBoth knights are regarded as heroes and loved by all; however, there are many more differences between the two than similarities. One difference between the knights is their modesty. Beowulf is anything but modest. When he shows up he boasts about his great accomplishments, how great he is, and how he will never back down from a fight. However, Gawain, is much more modest. To justify him being the knight to fight the Green Knight, he says that he is weak and witless. But later on in the story, this is proven wrong. Despite his claims, Gawain turns out to be a strong knight (he survived the wilderness during winter) and very cunning.
ReplyDeleteBoth knights are different because they are invented to represent and difference aspect of the chivalric code. Beowulf is supposed to be the brave strong knight that gets rid of the evil. In contrast, Gawain represents courtesy and wits. There are almost opposite ends of the spectrum.
Another difference is the type of character they are. Beowulf is almost a supernatural hero (excessively tall and strong), and your classic idealist hero. However, Gawain is not as supernatural, although still a much better person than most. He is portrayed as having flaws and being human. Beowulf is brute forces, whereas Gawain is tricky.
In response to Gaia and Joe:
ReplyDeleteI agree that overall Beowulf would be your traditional hero, and Gawain more untraditional. But at the same time, perhaps Gawain would be the tradition hero of his time.
I also agree with Joe that Beowulf most definitely was a bragger. During the entire section of the swimming match it was all about why Beowulf was better then his friend.
I think that there are many similarities and differences between Beowulf and Gawain. They are similar in that they are both great men that go on an adventure in order to do what's right for others, not worrying about their own safety. Beowulf risked his life to kill Grendel and Gawain risked his own safety to go the see the Green Knight in order to save King Arthur's life. But they are also different in many ways. Gawain is a very modest man and says that he would be the least loss to the court, while Beowulf take a lot of time to explain how great he is and how he won the swimming race. Another key difference is that Beowulf is the perfect example of a hero. He always does the right thing and he's powerful and ultimately completes his task. On the other hand, it's easier to relate to Gawain. He seems more human, more like regular people who have flaws, which Beowulf does not have. Even though both of them are heroes, they're different kinds of heroes. Gawain is a chivalric knight, whose best quality is politeness and kindness. Beowulf is a hero in that he's strong and brave and a powerful person who can kill anyone who stands in his way. I think this has to do the time periods in which the stories were written. In the time of Beowulf, a hero was a very powerful person, but in the time period of Sir Gawain, the idea of a perfect hero changed and became what Sir Gawain was.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Scott and Joe:
I agree, Beowulf really did brag a lot. While Gawain was a modest man who claimed that he was the weakest knight in the Round Table, a lot of time was devoted to Beowulf explaining all his heroic deeds.
I would have to say that "hero" wise, they are about the same. They both portray classic heroic characteristics- such as strength, wisdom, chivalry, courage, etc. The differences between them are more personality than they are "heroic-ness". Gawain is modest, and does not boast about himself to make his character seem more manly or brave. He doesn't refer to feats he accomplished in the past, and he doesn't make excuses for himself. Beowulf, on the other hand, is very boastful and conceited. He brags about beasts he has previously slain, contests he's won, etc. When Beowulf was accused of losing a swimming race, he made up an impossible explanation as to why he was the better swimmer, and simply lost due to his own ability to slay other creatures. I think that Beowulf is more of an obvious hero; strong, confident, and courageous. Gawain is more subtly a hero; modest, competent, and determined. Despite their differences, both heros never gave up when faced with a challenge.
ReplyDeletein response to harini:
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree that the definition of a hero had changed from Beowulf's time to Gawain's time. You're right that during Gawain's time, being a hero was being a courageous Knight; not just a macho warrior. During Beowulf's time, he was the typical, idealistic hero. During Gawain's time, Gawain was the idealistic hero. They both were heros in their own times.
In response to Joe:
ReplyDeleteI agree that there is a definite contrast between the boastful Beowulf and the humble Gawain. Both know that they are great warriors but Gawain is also praised for his humility and selflessness. I think that it is much easier to identify with Gawain than with Beowulf because he displays many qualities that we look for in heroes today (bravery, politeness, strength, humility) whereas Beowulf comes from a completely different time with different values. In our times we don't value being able to plunder a lot of treasure
I think that beowulf is a little bit less believable than Sir Gawain because of how he manages to kill even imaginary monsters. I think also that Sir Gawain was more chivalric that Beowulf because he didnt look at himself as being better than others while and would never show off, while Beowulf would waltz into a castle and began telling the other people there of all the great things he had accomplished. These two heors are similar in the way that they both spend their lives working to protect and save people from harm.
ReplyDeleteBeowulf and Gawain both share some very fundamental similarities. Most notably, they are both part of their culture's nobility. They then both fight monsters and journey far away from their home on a quest. Their similarities end when they are received by their respective hosts. Gawain is immediately at pains to behave modestly and politely in Bertilak's castle. Beowulf, on the other hand, although he is moderately polite, begins boasting as soon as he arrives at Hrothgar's mead-hall. When Beowulf confronts his monster, Beowulf fights and kills him immediately. Because of the nature of Gawain's meeting, however, Gawain refrains from fighting his monster. In this way, Beowulf comes across as a strong/powerful war-focussed hero, while Gawain comes across as a more tempered, cautious hero.
ReplyDeleteBeowulf and Gawain each represent a different type of heroism. Beowulf's hero fights for what he believes in no matter what the cost, and is happy to collect the benefits for his victories. Gawain, on the other hand, fights in the way the code of chivalry dictates and humbly tries not to benefit from his actions. Both types of heroism were valued by the cultures that created them. Each one was traditional in its own culture, and both are rather untraditional in ours. However, since the Gawain hero is descended from the Beowulf hero, the Beowulf hero is most likely the more traditional of the two.
Sir Gawain and Beowulf are undoubtedly heroes, but they have different heroic styles and aren't the same heroic type. Gawain is humble and is not comfortable boasting and telling everyone about his heroic feats from the past in the same way Beowulf is. Gawain and Beowulf have reputations of being great knights, and Beowulf embraces and encourages this while Gawain does the opposite. Both heroes observe the chivalric code and pride themselves on it, but a difference is that Gawain recognizes himself as having flaws while Beowulf makes it known that is an invincible and always noble being. They both knowingly risk their lives (Beowulf to kill mythical creatures, Gawain to save King Arthur). The difference in personality is what really distinguishes these two heroes.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Harini and Teddy:
I agree that Gawain is more realistic and easier to relate to. He is more of a human with flaws as opposed to Beowulf who has inhuman strength and bravery.
In response to Bozo/Keegan,
ReplyDeleteI agree that Gawain is a more realistic character. Beowulf is certainly more idealized. But does a hero become less of a hero when s/he becomes more real?
Both Beowulf and Sir Gawain are extremely chivalrous. However, Beowulf is known for his strength and bravery, while Gawain is famous for his honesty. Beowulf was heroic in a traditional sense because he defeated Grendal, who was your classic monster. He was portrayed as entirely flawless, and acted as such throughout the story, never making a mistake or faltering for an instant. He was also quite fond of bragging about himself. In contrast, a more nontraditional hero, Gawain, did not make a single boast. He even shows modesty, for example, when he explains that he should be the one to take the green knight's challenge because he is the least valuable to Arthur's court. He is shown to be human and make mistakes, such as when he takes the girdle and does not offer it to his host at the end of the day, and when he flinches as the axe is about to come down on him. Gawain didn't slay a mnonster, instead he is heroic because he was an honorable person, and when he made a mistrak, he is determind to learned from it and not make it again; he wears the green girdle as a reminder of his mistake of not entirely honoring his promise to the host.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Eva:
ReplyDeleteI really agree that the main difference in the end between these two characters is their personalities. As we said in class on Friday, Gawain is portrayed as more of a multi-dimensional character, whereas Beowulf is more two dimensional, mostly because we don't see his "human" qualities. He is described as being purely heroic with no human flaws as evident as Gawain's.
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ReplyDeleteIn response to Aaron:I think that someone who is more realistic is more heroic than someone who is not. I think this because when they are more realistic, it generally means that they have more of an obstacle in themselves to overcome. For example, while Beowulf seemed to have a inner moral compass that could never go astray, we see in Gawain, because his mistakes, that every previous good thing he has done has been a product of his choice after a decision making process. However, being realistic doesn't make him more traditionally heroic.
ReplyDeleteBoth Sir Gawain and Beowulf can be viewed as mighty and epic heroes. Bravery is a trait that both men share. They throw themselves into dangerous situations with little to no thought of their own safety. Consistency is a word that was brought up as I read through some of my thoughts on this matter in an earlier question of the week. Throughout both stories, Beowulf and Gawain repeatedly live up to their reputations as a hero by fighting off a beast or resisting temptation. The controversial point of Gawain's decision to accept the Lady's girdle is a stab at his heroic image, so to is his wincing reaction to the potential slice of the Green Knight's Axe. These two situations lead us back to the topic of perspective. In my opinion, Sir Gawain represents a hero. However, if judging with the chivalric code in mind, he did not uphold his Knight's duties, because he allowed fear for his life to enter his decision process, taking away his credibility as a Hero. Also untraditional to a hero's behavior, Beowulf would resemble some “big-headed” person or some one with an ego about themselves. At least, that was the opinion that I came to have when I read over his explanations of himself. He would put so much energy into explaining his image to the people, just to convince them he could protect him. I think the notion of accepting help is something that is disputatious in defining a Hero. I think that when defining a Hero, the comparison to a human can devalue the their heroic reputation or conversely boost it. For example, Beowulf finally gives in to accepting another's help in his last battle. Subsequently, Gawain selfishly thought of himself in taking the Girdle and humanly flinched. These moments, exploit the flaws of these two arguable heroes. I think that depending on the time period or experiences you have, people have different views of what a hero is. I find that a Hero is less of an idealized character such as Beowulf, and more of a flawed and modest character like that of Sir Gawain.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Nick, I completely agree with you. In that both men fit the mold of a Hero for their time. I did not recognize the ever present commitment to the Lord. However, it is true, more so in Gawain with the pentangle reference and as for Beowulf the sharing of wealth emphasized by Hrothgar in his tellings of Greek tragedians.
The most obvious similarity to me is that both Gawain and Beowulf live by a code that they strive to uphold in everyway. Gawain lives by the chivalric code held up by knights, he is polite, he never turns down a challenge, he is not a coward, and he respects woman greatly. Beowulf also follows all of these aspects of a knight, he certainly never turns down a challenge and he is very very courageous. Another obvious similarity between the two men is the epic journeys that they partake in. Gawain faces many a beast and burden along his journey to find the Green Knight, he kills many a giant and slays many a beast. This is quite similar to the challenges that Beowulf faces, along his journey he fights 3 mighty beasts, Grendel, Grendels mother, and the dragon. Their journeys and their upholding of a code is what makes them so similar.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Clark: I liked that you brought up the specific virtues that Knight must possess. I think it added to what you were saying in a very positive way. Good job.